peggy
New Member
Posts: 12 
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Post by peggy on Dec 20, 2015 15:14:56 GMT -8
so we have had only 4 days of 4 hours or more of sun in 25 days. renogy please help. when renogys panels don't get enough sun we use the tried and trusted generator. thank god for a mild winter. because of grey days we have not been able to get enough solar and had to use generator. we only draw less than 3 amps 12 volts dc. during the day. I am asking right now is there anyone in this forum that actually lives OFF GRID like us. ple ase respond I wanna know what I am not missing? and once again thanks renogy for no monthly electric bill.
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Post by Foothillselectric on Dec 26, 2015 3:34:42 GMT -8
Have you considered adding a wind turbine to supplement the solar panels?
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Post by peggy and frank on Dec 26, 2015 7:17:46 GMT -8
yes we have considered wind. to expensive all at one time. your talking $500? I like it how renogy has it set up where you can buy piece by piece and not the whole thing at once. question you live off grid completely? talking solar power we only have 3 things ac the rest is dc. we use very little power. just tryng to figure out power use compared to solar charging and how many more panels to compensate for grey days. we only get .2 amps times 3 on grey. our furnace is 3.2 amps dc running twice an hour for 5 minutes. are lights are .7 amps constant when truned on. maybe renogys math people could help. I was hoping to find someone who lives completely off grid to see what they have set up that's similar to us. as for wind ahh maybe. rather stay solar.
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Post by jsb2000 on Dec 26, 2015 7:44:18 GMT -8
Hi Peggy and Frank,
Although I'm not living off grid, I believe I can make some recommendations based on my experience and off grid setups that I've personally seen.
Bottom line is, no matter what you do, there are going to be times where your solar collection setup will be insufficient to meet your needs. EVERY well designed off grid setup plans for that scenario by having some kind of way to compensate. You're doing it with your generator, and that's okay. Other folks use generators, wind turbines, and even hydro electric power to keep that juice flowing when the sun isn't there.
I live on the East Coast of the United States. It's been cloudy/raining for over a week now at my location. I've been charging my batteries from the mains for several days because there just hasn't been enough sun to do the job. Eventually I will add a second Renogy solar panel and maybe a third battery to the two I have now. But I will always need to use the mains (or, in a grid down scenario, my generator) when the sun doesn't shine for weeks at a time. And there's no shame in that. It happens.
You can always improve your solar capacity by adding batteries. But you still have to fill those batteries somehow. You can also look at your current energy consumption and plan, to a certain extent, how many solar panels and batteries you need to meet your needs, factoring in for a certain number of solar poor days. But again, unless you have bottomless pockets, most folks can't do it on solar alone all of the time.
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Post by Admin on Dec 29, 2015 11:53:34 GMT -8
Hello Peggy,
Jsb2000 is completely right. On cloudy days/weeks most solar systems won't be able to keep up with your regular usage. You will need to oversize your system in order to compensate for those cloudy days.
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Post by peggy and frank on Dec 31, 2015 10:00:29 GMT -8
that would mean? im thinking what? double of what we have for solar panels and another 100 ah battery. what gets me is how little electric we use but just because of no sun how little charging we get because of "no sun". we are at what I consider bare minimum for power use. I guess do what I can then.
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Post by Jerry on Dec 31, 2015 11:39:56 GMT -8
Yep, no sun no solar. But, not questioning your intelligence, how are you getting your ratings? .2amp times 3 what?, on grey days .7 amps for light tells me 2 or 3 led fixtures. Just my musings but a 100 Watt PV should put out 1 amp on a grey day, “black” grey days do s… start thinking amp HOURS - .7 amps for lights for 10 hours is 7 amps drawn
Now, everything I post is just my opinion based on several years of dry camping as a full-time Rver, last 5 on solar.
What is your battery bank amp hr rating? Divide by 3 and figure using half of that. Dropping voltage below 12 is going to start hurting your bats, sulfation. The more amps you draw will DECREASE your rating, ie 5 amps will last 10 hours, 10 amps only 3. And, chunk the deep cycle marine bats for 2 6volt “golf cart” bats, yeah more $$, weight, space but worth it if you have it.
Generator – you just using your trailer’s converter?, it will only go to 13.6 Get a charger 10 amp min rating, and add that, it should bump the voltage to upper 14Vs and even higher to equalize the battery, clean out the sulfation.
Your panels – are they tilted?, doing so will increase the amp output. See the sun angle post in the technical support board.
PV controller – can you adjust the absorption voltage it goes to and the time it holds that voltage, and the float voltage it will drop down to? Fork out the $$$ for one but keep in mind what extra panels you may add. You can exceed the max watts and end up needing a beefier controller.
Here is what I have and do.
2 banks - #1 is pair of 6V and #2 the cheapest 12V dealer could/would put in this trailer. They are connected via a marine switch to the trailer, I can select to use bank 1 or 2, or both to power the trailer. My inverter is wired to the 6v. The switch is normally set to use the 12V for trailer. Set to both then trailer and inverter getting juice from all bats.
2 PV banks, #1 roof mounted tilt-able pair of 135W outputting 15 amps on a great day via a bluesky 3000i controller set to maintain 14.8V for 5 hrs then float at 13.8. Equalize at 15.2 for 2 hrs when I tell it to. This one is connected to the 6Vs. #2 a 100W renogy starter kit with the wander controller to charge the 12V. Sits on the ground, mounted on frame so I can adjust tilt and east to west to get the best sun angle am to pm.
Now, the bluesky displays voltage and amps. When the 6Vs hit 14.8, I put the marine switch to both so the 12V is getting the extra bang since the wander will only do 14.6 for 2 hrs. I move the switch back when the time comes. The mix/match I do … so what, 12V don’t care.
Generator time, battery charges one bank and trailer converter the other.
Solar rules!!!
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Post by peggy and frank on Dec 31, 2015 16:43:17 GMT -8
ahh but theres a lot of but's. when using you need to put back more than taken out(voltage loss). we are using 3 100 watt mono hooked to 40 amp mppt cc hooked to 250 ah. panels are tilted and swiveable(spellingwhatever). it is quite surprising that I only draw .2 amps times three when the max out is 54 volts dc in a series on grey days. 10 gauge wire for 80 feet. not much for voltage loss.
I have seen our cc go to only 13.3 max never above that.
ive got two battery chaRGERS set at ten amps running for 3 hours from generator and it never fully charges. that only goes to 13.0 volts. mother nature has something to do with that. it gets cold here. our batteries are outside.
renogys got it so everything is in the electronics of the cc. whatever the peramiters are inside you cant change. they should have a desulfication setting. and as for your peramiters I wish I could get those.
ohh and money wise golf cart batteries not today.
and yes around here we half to stay with 12, our leds, furnace is all 12 volt so no going to a higher voltage.
man if I only had $10000 renogy would be smiling.
believe me renogy once you go solar you will never go back. never.
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Post by Jerry on Jan 1, 2016 14:11:59 GMT -8
Happy New Year. I feel for you, understand what you are going thru. After talking to a few people I went to the recommended store here in Quartzsite, Az. Told them what I did/do, they said I needed xxxx and I said put it on. Have learned a lot since, definitely NOT any kind of expert. But I'll try to help with my 2 bits. Just re-read your post about junk used to set up your system. Sounds like you did homework and off to a good start with your limited resources, I admire your work. I’m a junk re-cycler myself – and misery sob when I can. Bit confused about PV to controller wiring and wonder if you might not be “optimal”. Same goes for controller to bats. And, CAR bats ain’t going to handle the repeated drain - they will die on you, nice start till you can upgrade. PV to controller (cc ?) Wires from pv to “junction block” short as possible, I hope. The 80 ft 10 gauge, is from the jb to cc, I hope, and that’s pushing it, 8 gauge would be better. From the pv to bats – short as possible and at least 8 gauge. Your cc, does it display the voltage (that should be from the bats) and the amps (that should be what the cc is putting out to the bats). .2 amps for 300Watts of pv , gag, that’s a black black grey day. The 13.3 number, that voltage or amps. If amps, that’s close to what 300Watts will get you. What is the make and model of your cc? I can look up the manual to know what it can do. And where do you live, state… then I can check out your grey day situation. OK, you are on a 12V system, that doesn’t mean your bats can’t get higher. Upper 14 even in to 15+ to charge and desulfate. Using a battery charger…. Personal experience, I learned something I probably knew, just didn’t think…. BLACK grey day, zip solar. Hooked up charger and 5 hrs later my inverter shut off. Now what??? Checked and bat was 15.2, inverter shuts down at 15.1 – over voltage protection. Charger maintained 15+ another 2 hrs before it dropped to 13.6 and stayed there. Bat charged!!!! Well duh, I knew all that, but the 15+ was desulfering and the bats worked/lasted longer, amp hr output, then they had been. You are off to a good start and asking for more knowledge, learning can be painful….. know you’re tight for $$, but with time, some battery upgrade and maybe controller will get you there. Check out the links below. I’m not promoting any brand, but the info will help. Later, Jerry and Toby (the dog). Rotting in AZ waiting for warmer weather so we can get back to God’s country – Colorado . Link to kyocera kd135sx-upu installation manual, minor info with tilt angle guide www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.kyocerasolar.com/assets/001/5640.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwicq-TioYnKAhUJ2GMKHTqdC8MQFggeMAA&usg=AFQjCNHsUFnfwqIXkSoi7Jq79ltvmmvfaw&sig2=rEnnGiACR1Zqijl0jU7MGQLink to manual for my controller - good info for any controller. www.blueskyenergyinc.com/products/details/solar-boost-3000iDown load the Info provided in the 2 links provided in the “Battery drain calculator” post in this board. The FAQ one has really good info. |
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Post by peggy and frank on Jan 1, 2016 15:05:09 GMT -8
we have upgraded since the car battery situation. we have 2 deep cycle marine batteries now both less than a month old. they have a 2 year warranty why not.
the charge controller is renogys mppt 40 amp.
I know what you mean by pushing it for 10 gauge wire, that's all that was in scrap pile at the time.
we are located in central wi.
I ran everything in the electrical hut 2 gauge as short as possible.
everything feeds off my buss bars. the wiring on the buss bar depends on what it is feeding. example cc out to fuse is 2 gauge. to inverter is 2 gauge.
that is 13.3 volt I wish amp. all calculations are done to a hand held meter. we were cheap and didn't get the meter.
I bought a brand new battery charger and I can not get it to go over 13.3 hum? I wish I had the higher voltage for desulfacation.
that enlies another problem how high is to high. I wish battery manufactures would give you the whole spec sheet not tidbits.
as for tilt I cant tilt only spin. I was told 33 degress was the best.
as for where I was to where I am. I started this whole thing with a electric fencer control module and a car battery?
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Post by Jerry on Jan 1, 2016 16:42:01 GMT -8
OK, learned at bit there. Tomorrow we progress. Elec. Fence controller?  ?. YOU HAVE MADE PROGRESS proud of you! Go download that stuff i pointed you to. It is good knowledge I think you need to help refresh your brain. It did for me. You are doing GOOD. J and T |
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Post by Jerry on Jan 2, 2016 10:26:17 GMT -8
OK, I looked up Wausau,WI. latitude 44.95, 8h 51min of daylight today.
I’m at Quartzsite,AZ latitude 33.66, 9h 58min
So, the Kyocera manual says, for this time of year, you should be tilted at 65 degrees. 33 is more summer time. If you can, fix it, it will make some improvement. When I bit the bullet to get on my roof and tilt mine I saw great improvement. At least you can swivel and get the best bang thru out the day.
You know, living off solar is a double edge sword. Winter you need the bats more, lighting, furnace, etc. But you don’t have the solar time. Summer, more solar than we can use. Sigh. If we had noontime all day we could get by with a motorcycle bat. Soooooo, where you live is not that solar friendly in the winter. Short days. Cold temps, nasty weather.
I checked out your cc. For the $$$, too bad it doesn’t display bat voltage and amps it is outputting. And only 2 hrs at boost voltage. I’m not bad mouthing, but I paid 280, no tax, can set voltages and times and the thing displays more crap than one needs to know.
Voltage is the key to reading your battery’s health. Invest in a digital multimeter. A charged bat reads 12.6, 12.7. If mine get down to 12.0 12.1 and bad solar day, the battery charger comes out and I will run it even after the charged lite comes on. It takes amps to charge. Your PV cc is just a charger using solar instead of AC. Either way, bat should get to 14.8V, stay there for 2 or more hrs, then down to 13.6 float. Up to 15.2 for 2 hrs to desulfate, say every 30 days, jury is still out on that. Looks like you will have a few good solar days. Your bats should get to that upper 14V range. If not, your cc ain’t doing its job and/or your wiring is off.
I can’t say much more. You have upgraded bats, your PV system sorta minimal for this time of year, but should suffice. Options as other posts say, beef up with more bats, panels and cc that will handle the extra power. Run the generator more you want. And if you got reliable wind then……
I know, more $$$. Bummer. Good luck.
J and T
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Post by peggy and frank on Jan 2, 2016 15:16:37 GMT -8
man am I way off on tilt. I looked at web site and said jerry will get back to me!I cant believe its that far in winter. not a computer nut.
no doubt on the motorcycle battery. I wish.
well 2 days of good sun. running generator now. have 2 battery chargers set at 10 amps each. charging 250 ah(no more car batteries)
see what "blows or burns"
yeah we started this whole endever with just a piece of scraped out electric fencer. a lot got wreck burnt destroyed . I have learned a lot from the "explosions". a car battery doesn't like 17 amp input when you had to many beers and you forget about it!
where did you get the 8 hours and ? what web site?
and wausau is north 50 miles.
I hope my wiring isn't off its all 2 gauge.
I started typing 45 minutes ago. started at 12.4. ooh 12.8 after 45 min, let you no what it peaks at. or blows up at!
after 45 minutes electrical hut in 20 degree weather even seems a bit warm. shouldn't have insulated it.
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Post by Jerry on Jan 3, 2016 15:02:57 GMT -8
Hello again. Peggy, I was a bit ticked at you. Trying to figure out what I could add to help you out. Made me think, and I try not to do that, it hurts your are forgiven, see below….. OK. Re-read your “junk” post. Very resourceful. Your buss bars, made from aluminum from jacuzzi cover frame? You have two sets, first one to connect PV to cc, second to connect cc to bats AND inverter AND . So, if I got this right, when things are/should be powered up, panels good sun and doing best they can, bats working to provide juice to whatever. Put your finger on a PV bar, and again on a bat bar. If either feel anything warmer than room temp, GAG. If so, you are over loading the bar(s). To much current, amps, than the bars can handle. LOSING power to heat the bars, that’s what causes wires to burn and cause FIRES. Beef em up adding second piece to double the depth. Invest in real bars, copper, or use say at least quarter inch copper bar, not tubing, to make new ones. Next, the bat buss. Everything to/from bats is 2 gauge wire or close, GOOD. Are both bats connected to buss? I know you had a third you could disconnect and carry, forget about that one for now. Think about hooking up the two bats in PARALLEL + to +, - to - , then only one +/- to buss. See the off grid info I have pointed you to below for wiring example. Fig. 9.2 And, maybe the cc directly to bats, again, Fig. 9.2 Next, inverter. You say you have 3 AC devices. What are they and how often/long are they running? Next, the PV buss. Are your panels 1. connected together, in parallel, like Fig. 8.3 and then one 80 ft +/- cable of 10 gauge to buss bars. 2. Or, each panel running Separate 80 ft wires to buss? Which accomplishments #1, just more wire. Do #1 OK, This is getting long, you got info here to keep ya busy, getting late dog needs to go out, I’m working on my 4th beer so time for me to go out. Got some more Q and A for later. J This link provided me with some info I was a bit in the dark about. Thanks Renogy, have searched and this was the first to ever answer my questions. renogy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/off-grid-general-manual.pdf THIS product will help you “finger” out what is going on . I know I have seen these things, just didn’t know what they did . Read the manual twice and I’m going to get one. Thank you peggy!! If I hadn’t been prowling, I would not have discovered this tool. If I was a cat I would go thru my 9 lives in a week. FYI, googled it and Amazon has others for half the price, sorry Renogy. www.renogy-store.com/mobile/product.aspx?ProductCode=trcrmtr-mt-150&404;http://www.renogy-store.com:80/150A-Watt-Meter-and-Power-Analyzer-p/trcrmtr-mt-150.htm=If the above link can’t click and work, go to renogy.com, shop the off grid systems, select a kit, in the may we suggest area, should be a pic of the meter, click and you got it, link to manual included. Select state, find city, select options like day length, click make calander www.sunrisesunset.com/USA/ |
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Post by Jerry on Jan 5, 2016 16:14:30 GMT -8
Hi again. First I have to apologize for just about everything I have posted in this thread. I live in a mobile “off grid home”, a 5th wheel, so every thing is 12V based. I know how to figure amp hour usage/load and understand the Volts x Amps = Watts formula. Trying to understand the solar stuff Vimp, Vmp, Pmax, etc, went right over my head and had no desire to go teach myself. I just wanted to get my batteries charged. So, I just worked at …. that PV and the cc just put out what ever amps it could at 12V and charged my bats. Last few days I’ve been prowling around and learned how ignorant I am about how solar components do what they do and what I was taking for granted. And my little pea-brain hurts!!! Peggy, I found and read all the posts you have made, and can now believe your solar setup is just fine. Even the bat buss bar arrangement, that’s how you can use multiple battery chargers to get things charged in less time and reduce time running the generator. Fixing your tilt will help, and checking the buss is purely a safety thing. Anything else I have said, probably “bunk”. Bottom line, no sun no solar. However, in the thread renogy-store.boards.net/thread/223/suggestions-wanted-connecting-100w-panelsSpiderbob gave a good write up of panels in parallel vs series. My head still hurts after trying to digest that. So, you might wanna try going parallel just to see. You can make another buss bar set, all plus to one bar, negative to other. Just make sure your snowy weather can’t short them together. And I’ll give you, that getting around the panel’s MC4 connectors so you can easily go back to series, gonna be a pain, but nothing tried nothing gained….. with that, I shut up about solar. Peggy, I got a feeling you have been painfully learning what batteries will and will not do. I have pointed to some bat info that should help. Here is another example. My bats are interstate, 6Vs GC-2’s, 12 is a HD24-DP. Here is the hours at ampere load 5amp 15amp 6V. 54.5. 14.0 12. 11.6. 3.2 So, the harder you push, the less they can give. The link below will provide above info and more. www.interstatebatteries.com/content/product_info/marine_f.aspGoogle “battery amp hour load rating” and you will get more stuff, it will drive you to drink. J |
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